Some one calling themselves "JG" writes, ""I can respect you sticking to your beliefs, but how far will you take that ?
At what point would you be willing to consider the possibility that you may have been wrong ? On both sides of the issues, we all become too locked into our first feelings, we all have to be able to rethink things, every time someone on CL is presented with information that doesn't match their pre set notions, they dismiss it, it came from the wrong website... it's a vast right or left wing conspiracy, it's all a ploy by the saudis or by al franken, its a by product of the polarization that is gripping this country, and I have to tell you ladies and gentlemen, it is not good.
So I'll ask you directly, when will you be willing to consider the possibility that it this invasion is NOT about oil, or land grabs, that whatever you feel about the outcome or the methods, the motivation was sincere ? When US troops leave Iraq ? when a new Iraqi government is elected ? When Iraq steps up and votes against us in the UN security council in 50 years, those falafel eating surrender monkey ingrates ?"
I responded: G, here are the facts:
On May 22 2003, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 1483, abolishing sanctions against Iraq and recognising the United States and United Kingdom as the country's occupying powers. The resolution called upon the US-UK authority to "comply fully with their obligations under international law, including in particular the Geneva Conventions of 1949 and the Hague Regulations of 1907." http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1079563,00.html
The US and UK have already violated these Conventions. what the hell is your deal, you don't understand this or know about it? you expect our mainstream media to spoon feed you the facts? The media didn't report to the American people how the CIA helped put the Baath party into power in the first place. They didn't report how the CIA handed over the names of thousands of people to be killed by the Baathists. The media continues the game by not reporting the violations the US is doing right now in Iraq.
when the **** are you going to wake up?
are you putting us on with this bullshit of yours that the US is simply trying to help the Iraqi people, that the "motivation was sincere"!?!, are you a **** two year old? Are you really this God damn ignorant or naive? You ignore 50 years of the US **** over the people of the Middle East.
Now that you see that the US has clearly shown its true colors (again) with the violations of the rights of the Iraqis (this is happening RIGHT NOW!) with the illegal imposing of business deals upon them, are you going to finally wake up or not?
JG ignored the above.
He posted the following in responce to some other topic:
I am not saying school prayer is some sort of be all and end all, but I do think that laws, a system of crime and punishment, will never be enough to prevent people from doing bad things, there has to be some underlying morality , be it religious, or just a sense of right and worng, thats missing from society today. If the only deterrence of a crime will be "can I get away with it or not " then we are all in trouble. This is nothing new, when the Romans stopped revering (and fearing) their gods, the moral code fo their society collapsed. Its a basic formula, am I saying everyone needs to start going to church, but I do think a godless, faithless society is asking for trouble. Whats this guy was is that if these two murdering teens had a real faith, and a sense fo right and wrong, this tragedy would have never happened.
Too many of our young men and women today are growing up without souls, heartless and cruel, if religion is no longer strong enough to provide a model for thought and deed, and the collapsing family not noi longer able to provide it, then who or what will ? the government ? hardly ! public opinion ? yeah right. Every society is built and runs on 4 pillars, Religion, Family, Law, and Public Opinion, I don't need to tell you how shaky our table has become.
So I wrote, "JG you write things like "If the only deterrence of a crime will be "can I get away with it or not " then we are all in trouble. "
yet you don't practice what you preach. you are complicitous with crimes in the Middle East.
you write as if you live in a mke believe world. you say things like we can wait and see if the US in honest about what it is doing in Iraq. But I have pointed out to you that we do not have to wait. I showed you the facts and you ignore them.
I am talking about this:Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Pillage is forbidden LINK>>>> http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pol/32258349.html
JG responed: "I think it was pericles who said " a state can not be moral as the people must be, it's first last and only goal must be preservation and welfare of the state "
or something like that, someone google it for me.
Every government has to act solely in it's own interests, don't be childish and asume that any nation on this planet acts in any other way besides it's own self interests. All I need my government o do is look out for me and my fellow citizens, thats harsh, but true. It has no responsibility to any other master besides it's own citizens."
You wrote, "I think it was pericles who said " a state can not be moral as the people must be, it's first last and only goal must be preservation and welfare of the state " or something like that, someone google it for me."
JG, you really should give more thought to your opinions. You may think you are dressing up your immorality but it doesn't hide the fact that it is immoral. OF COURCE A STATE CAN BE MORAL AND SHOULD BE MORAL!! A human being has the goal of preservation of him or herself, that doesn't mean they can disregard morality! What an evil concept that you can simply disregard morality because the state "gotta do what it gotta do" That is the philosophy of a thug.
You write, "Every government has to act solely in it's own interests, don't be childish and asume that any nation on this planet acts in any other way besides it's own self interests. All I need my government o do is look out for me and my fellow citizens, thats harsh, but true."
Two points: First of all, a government has to act morally or we should end it. Second, who is being naive? when you talk about the internets of a government you aren't serious when you include the interests of the average citizen are you? The interests served by this government are those of the powerful. And that is why they want you to disregard morality, they are THAT greedy.
But the thing about you is that you are really twisted. Are you now going to tell me that you are serving the interests of the state by being deceptive here on Craigslist? YOu made a big point about "the motivation was sincere" as far as the US toward Iraq. Yet you don't think the US has to be sincere, it only has to "do what it gotta do". You write, "It has no responsibility to any other master besides it's own citizens" Why are you on here trying to get people to believe that the US is sincere when your philosophy is that the US has no responsibility to be sincere at all? You are going to argue that the US by some fluke happens to be sincere when the US has no responsibility to be so? You are bullshitting your fellow citizens for whose benefit? The state? America is supposed to be a government of the people, so you miss the point of what America is supposed to be about.
What is you contribution to America? Trying to trick Americans into thinking their government is acting morally while AT THE SAME TIME (actually after it is made clear to you that the US is not acting morally) insisting that the government has not responsibility to be moral?
When do you finally come clean and stop acting like a shit. People are suffering and dying because of the kinds of games people like you play.