Tuesday, June 06, 2006

Prof Jones and his 9/11 Paper

Jones has some sort of problem. He misrepresents many things in his paper. Chairman of the BYU department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Dr. Miller, is on record stating in an e-mail, "I think without exception, the structural engineering professors in our department are not in agreement with the claims made by Jones in his paper, and they don't think there is accuracy and validity to these claims."

Here are two major problems from Section 12 of Jones' paper:

Jones invents a contradiction between NIST and Lane and Lamont, he writes: "even though the UK experts complained that “the core columns cannot pull the exterior [i.e., perimeter] columns in via the floor.”

BUT NIST DOESN'T SAY core columns pulled the exterior columns!

Jones is at his most blind when he quotes NIST: "To the extent that the simulations deviated from the photographic evidence or eyewitness reports" THEN HE ADDS: [e.g., complete collapse occurred]

But NIST is referring to changes in the building BEFORE the collapse! Clearly NIST is talking about the photogarophic evidence and eyewitness reports of things BEFORE complete collapse occurred. Apparently Jones is ignorant of the building changes before complete collapse. He thinks the simulations were tweaked to conform to the collapse not understanding that NIST is talking about observable events BEFORE that, like the bowing columns.

I have not seen Jones acknowledge the fact that the building was observably undergoing changes before the collapse. He communicates this ignorance when writes "How fun (perhaps) to tweak the model like that, until the building collapses -- until one gets the desired result." And he is not mentioning the bending of the columns and the sagging of the floors which is what the simulation was being tweaked to conform with. This doesn't have to be "faked" as Jones is implying, since we know that the columns did bend and the floors did sag. The simulations were simply tweaked so they would conform WITH WHAT WAS SEEN (photographed and witnessed) before the collapse. And this was done "only within the range of physical reality" as NIST writes.

This is a key point. Griffin himself says changes like this would be evidence of a fire induced collapse, "In fire-induced collapses ... the onset would be gradual. Horizontal beams and trusses would begin to sag; vertical columns, if subjected to strong forces, would begin to bend." The very thing that Griffin points to as a feature of a fire caused collapse we can see in photos of the World Trade Center. But both Griffin and Jones are apparently ignorant of this key fact.


Anonymous said...

If the floors did sag and fall, there still should have been the center columns intact.

There should have also been WHOLE center beams and colums, not and ZERO melted steel. ZERO aerosol. ZERO pyrite.

Also what about claims of seismic activity partial seconds before the building began to fall? One might expect siesmic activity AFTER the fall (there was none), but what about the siesmic activity BEFORE the building began to fall?

Who cares what he said or she said say LOOK AT THE VIDEOS. THINK people.

Great investigative documentaries and informative videos are made from this stuff. Do not believe without THINKING first.

Do not fear your own thoughts.

Anonymous said...

"BUT NIST DOESN'T SAY core columns pulled the exterior columns!" - RepresentativePress

The photos only show bowing around the points of impact can you tell me how else the columns would bow if the floor was not creating leverage on them? Also can you explain to my how all the OTHER columns that were not bowing were not able to hold up the weight, given the structure was intended to sustain winds of 150 miles per hour or MULTIPLE plane collisions (even larger than the planes used)

The outer perimeter columns were interconnected and the small amount that were shown bowing would not have compromised the integrity of the building. Another aspect is that thermate used to control the demolition could have been the cause for the "bowing".

You can see thermate molten steel flowing out of the building and thermate gasses exiting the building in the videos that I gave you. Again Jet fuel cannot weaken the still sufficiently to cause the collapse, nor can it cause it to melt into a liquid molten. "Molten Metal WTC Thermite" Google Video

The simulation is flawed. If they manipulated the laws of physics within their simulation to account for the sagging floors that you claim are de facto, then they whole simulation would be susceptable to this change in physics within the programming. One section of the building could have sagged to the ground that would not have compromised the entire buildings structure. As I have said before, 8-10 seconds is too fast for physics, unless NO floor touched another floor upon falling.

"This doesn't have to be "faked" as Jones is implying, since we know that the columns did bend and the floors did sag." - RepresentativePress
The pictures only show the outer perimeter bowing, it does not show the floors sagging; however, if either is true, given the PHYSICS behind JET FUEL, OFFICE FURNITRE burning then it can only be expained by some other means(such as thermate). You are only spreading proof against your claims.

You are playing with words; however, you have neglected to address the physical evidence. Photos used as measurements (bowing distance) are hardly concrete evidence. What is concrete is the melting point of steel and the uncontrolled temperature of burning hydrocarbons and office material. This is physics. Programmers can manipulate whatever they like it does not change those facts. They changed the programming based on assumptions as they did not have picture of bowing causation.

Even worse fires starved of oxygen produce large amounts of smoke, which from a physics standpoint means the fire was not at its maximum heat. Oxygen is necessary to cause a HYDROCARBON to burn hot and efficiently. Hence the purpose of a carburator in your car.

Tom said...

"around the points of impact"

NO, You don't know what you are talkign about. The bowing is not around the impact, it is on opposite sides of the building. (I told you this already in the commnets to my video) "Sit Down!" The Power to Silence

Diane said...

Jones has certainly made mistakes.

But I'm convinced that he's onto something regarding the temperature discrepancies he has noted. (See his latest paper, Extremely high temperatures during the World Trade Center destruction (PDF), especially section 4, "Discussion of relevant previously published data.")

The problem is that Jones has ventured outside his field of expertise (he's a nuclear physicist, not a chemist, not a metallurgist, not a structural engineer, and not a forensic scientist), so he probably doesn't fully know what he;s doing.

He therefore should be doing his research as part of a team of relevant experts. I'm now trying to find relevant experts who would be willing and able to help him or at least advise him, or perhaps do similar research in parallel if they have the means and inclination to do so.

Mohammad Seyed Amiri said...

How the CIA trains terrorists and uses them as pretexts

What is the USA doing in IRAQ?
The most important thing that is happening in Iraq is that America takes Iraq's oil reserves. Bin Laden - the executor for plans of the CIA - provided necessary pretexts for the USA to attack and put the plans in practice. Also at present Bin Laden - coordinated to the plans of the CIA - bomb attacks US solders and innocent people. The plans provide a false insecurity in Iraq. So other countries - like Japan, China and the European Union - can't enter Iraq and invest capital.
Nowadays oil is rising in price and the USA, decades ago, had realized that the growth of different industries in developing countries will make too much demand for oil and it will be too expensive. Also America realized that having control upon oil reserves of the world will make the USA continue being the number one superpower in the world and so, collaborating with the UK, made plans for the Middle East.
Constituting the religious government in Iran and then the war of attrition between Iran and Iraq aiming economical destruction of the two countries was the first phase of the plans and when Iran ran out of breath, immediately the war was stopped because no part of Iran should have been owned by Iraq.
Then Saddam, invoked by the USA, attacked Kuwait and the USA used it as pretext for attacking Iraq and then sanctions of the Security Council against Iraq were imposed on innocent people.
Before entering Iraq, the USA made poverty in Iraq and it was so intense that the United Nations did "The Oil-for-Food Program." That is to say they were getting oil and giving food to people who were dying of hunger. The sanctions against Iraq killed 500,000 children because needed medicines didn't get.
Why did the USA make poverty in Iraq? Because the USA had to go Iraq and continue executing plans and there shouldn't have occurred any resistance from the Iraqi people. And at present, the Iraqi people are busy to daily living and all the insecurities are born by groups that are Islamic outwardly, but are directed by the British Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) and the CIA. They fight against the USA outwardly, but execute plans of the CIA in actual truth.
When most of Iraq's oil reserves will be finishing, then it will be Iran's turn for the USA to enter Iran and take its oil and other -Iran is full of different mines like copper and uranium - reserves. Mullahs ruling Iran have the duty of making necessary pretexts. This is the scenario of Iran's ruling mullahs:
From olden times fascist governments of the world did not live long and Stalin, Hitler, and Mussolini tried to create fascist governments that live a long life. They drew people out to streets. People were doing demonstrations and had mottos but in actual truth, the mottos were in favor of the governments. People were voting, but they could only vote to the candidates who were elected by the governments. They led minds of people with popular organizations. The governments were democratic outwardly, but fascistic in actual truth.
The Mullah regime in Iran is an advanced type of that governments designed by the British Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) and the CIA. All ways of destruction of the government are blocked. For example there is Sepah Pasdaran to prevent military coup d’├ętat. There is the Council of Guardians of the Constitution to stop the Parliament. And they have the Basij Forces to suppress opponent demonstrations of the people. The government is anti USA outwardly but it's a strong fort that is controlled by levers grabbed by the USA and the UK in actual truth and no rival of the USA can penetrate it. If the USA himself does not destroy the government, that lives more than 100 years.
The agenda of the Mullah regime includes:
1- Continuing the programs of nuclear energy and atomic bomb.
2- Insulting to the USA and burning the United States Flag.
3- Protecting terrorist groups in countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Palestine.
4- Insulting to Israel and struggling to eliminate the country.
5- Committing every kind of crimes.
In brief, Iran's ruling mullahs have the duty of complete destruction of Iran's international esteem and they cause Iran to be hated by all people of the world.
The USA causes Iran to be hated because it will be Iran's turn after Iraq and performing plans in Iran is determined while nobody in the world will be asking: "Why do you do that?"
Iran's government is determined to provide such a poverty in Iran that when the USA enters Iran, people can't resist at all and they should be grateful of saving them from the Mullahs.
Also ordered by the USA, Mullahs have filled Iran with different weapons and when the USA enters Iran, there should happen such a great fire cracking that the USA pretends it was very very hard to capture Iran and involved very high expenses so the USA should get Iran's oil for a long time in turn for the hard work.
If we do a survey on Iran's oil sale we notice that Iran has a small percent of the quota on OPEC and oil sale is very less than what it was selling during the reign of the Shah of Iran and Iran's oil is a reserve for the USA.
Imagine after ten years when oil will be over two thousand dollars a barrel and then China with expensive oil, but the USA with cheap oil -50 dollars a barrel-, will manage their industries. Which one of them will produce cheaper products? That's the way the USA tries to remain the number one superpower in the world.
About a century ago the UK was the first grade colonizer of the world. But it didn't last long. After the Second World War the USA that had changed into a powerful country, began competing against the UK for colonies and so happened the nationalization of the oil industry in Iran when Mosaddeg was the prime minister and the Suez Canal when Colonel Gamal Abdel Nasser was the president and...
The UK noticed that the rival was very strong and could do nothing except compromising. Then Churchill told that they should divide the cake -the world- with the USA. And the two countries changed into allies and began developing plans for different countries for 50 years later, 100 years later, and even 200 years later.
Penetrating religious groups in Islamic countries and exciting them against the USA and equipping them with arms was one of the plans.
The USA wanted to make illegal remarks and plunder sources of the world. So the SIS and the CIA produced terrorist groups and the "terrorist" term, made them commit crimes, and incited worldwide hate and panic. It was for fighting against terrorists outwardly but plundering sources of the world. Terrorists are pretexts for putting evil plans in practice.
Basically Moslem is a lazy person who does not have the patience for reading history books and knowing what the USA has done with Moslems. And if he does that, he will find what the UK has done with Moslems.
Moslem likes reading his prayers for entering the paradise and if he is very smart, he is smart in earning money. A religious group -Islamic-, tends to make peace because the teachings of Islam are so. Moslem never finds motives in himself for toiling, making capital, going other countries, buying weapons, and being a terrorist in other countries.
If religious groups change into anti USA, armed, and very violent groups, it's a change that is produced by the influence of the SIS and the CIA for using the religious groups as pretexts for what they want to do.
If Islamic groups fight against Israel, it's because Jews in America are a constant pest to the USA and the USA, making the country -Israel- for them and producing war in the country, made the Jews spend a lot of energy and capital in Israel. So the USA prevented the Jews from getting bigger than what they are and stopped them from intervening in internal affairs of the USA. Long term plan of the USA for Jews is transferring them to Israel.
Right now the USA is developing a lot of violent and armed religious groups in Islamic countries and it has a lot of evil plans for the future of the world. Unfortunately the SIS and the CIA invoke religious groups to destroy historical monuments because it cauese worldwide hate and wrath against them.
Question: Bin Laden, Khamenei, or other leaders of religious and violent groups, do they know that they are executors for evil plans of the SIS and the CIA?
The answer is NO. The SIS and the CIA send some qualified persons in the groups. Islam doesn't have a lot of things for humans at the present time and religious individuals are unaware persons and their brains look like empty bowls. So the officials of the SIS and the CIA can act like theoricians. They have faith classes, interpret and justify whatever they want and place them in the brains using Islamic methods. They introduce the US as "the Great Satan." And express fighting, Jihad, and Shahadat -Struggle and Martyrdom in Islam- as the only way of getting a prosper in the future world. Then they arm humans and use them like robots. The robots are even ready to suicide. They also seal the brains so that any other information can't enter the brains. For sealing the brains they tell: "Shahid Imam told that if you were somewhere that they were speaking contrary to your religion and your beliefs, desert them and don't dispute against them because the Satan is lying in ambush and waiting for a chance to mislead believers toward perversion".
And in the end, which parts of the US government makes secret plans for the future?
Apparently most of Senators of the USA don't know about the secret plans and sometimes approve some bills that are contrary to the long term and secret plans. But the CIA is one of the actors of the plans.
How does the CIA change the Presidents' minds and make them conformed to the plans?
The CIA does it by affecting the Presidents but for doing that, the presidents should have almost empty brain bowls. Here to the CIA is the winner because the Presidents of the USA are not chosen from thinker and well-informed people and for example, actors can be candidates of the parties in elections.
The people of countries like Iran and Iraq are innocent and don't deserve the cruelties that the USA is doing to them. They have only one sin: plenty of mines and natural reserves. Can America do such oppressions but remain safe from the results? Obviously not.
Mohammad Seyed Amiri

Anonymous said...

Second Anonymous poster down: "Physics of Jet fuel". That has got to be the most misused phrase I have ever heard. You really like to let people think you're smart because you use the word "physics" and attach it to everything, don't you?

How about the physics of this next statement: You're a tool. What is the mathematical equation for an idiot on the internet? (Here's a hint: You + moron = Unified.)

So anyway, great site you have here and I couldn't agree more that the United States foreign policy shares the root of the 911 disaster along with the absolutely hysterically absurd people that perpetrated it. Keep up the good work.