We have it in our power to begin the world over again. See video:
Thomas Paine Common Sense RepPress
Friday, May 23, 2008
Thursday, May 22, 2008
I created a new channel called RepPress
I created a new channel called RepPress which will have promotional videos for the channel and the website and blog. If you want to help publicize RepresentativePress, please subscribe to RepPress also.
http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=RepPress
http://www.youtube.com/subscription_center?add_user=RepPress
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
Tuesday, May 20, 2008
Please see this video and pass it on.
Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to “wipe Israel off the map.” and Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has said, “We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state.” Please see this video and pass it on.
Sunday, May 18, 2008
Saturday, May 17, 2008
"A great motive to fight for those subjected to injustice and the oppressed"
I will be making a video about the latest bin Laden tape. I notice a few news outlets spin it as if he recently made it the main issue as they avoid reporting that in this tape he says:
“The Palestinian cause is the major issue for my nation. It was an important element in fueling me from the beginning and the 19 others with a great motive to fight for those subjected to injustice and the oppressed,” he said, referring to the 19 9/11 terrorists.
I noticed ABC's Diane Sawyer said "so he is now saying Israel is the central issue which is a bit of a shift from years gone by" and Brian Ross says "in the past year or two he has begun to make that the central issue, initially it was US forces." So Ross denies what bin Laden says in the tape and doesn't even mention it in his report and makes a claim it was US troops as central issue while ignoring bin Laden's statements (and the testimony of Philip Zelikow which was purposefully left out of the 9/11 Commission Report in which Zelikow says Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said bin Laden wanted to punish the US for supporting Israel) Fact is, bin Laden sometimes mentioned Palestine first, sometimes second and sometimes third in a usual list of three grievances. OVERALL, for all those involved in the attack, Israel is the main motive. But bin Laden never said, as far as I know, "troops in Saudi Arabia is the main thing" For example:
this is from the 1997 interview:
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?
BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (killings in Lebanon perpetrated by Israel)
And remember it was on the wire services on the day of 9/11/01 that "Osama bin Laden warned three weeks ago that he and his followers would carry out an unprecedented attack on U.S. interests for its support of Israel."
Also, Peter Bergen points out that lies have been pushed: "conventional wisdom has it that bin Laden adopted the Palestinians issue only recently. Reading this declaration [the first declaration of war, issued in 1996] SHOULD PUT THAT CANARD TO REST." p164 The Bin Laden I Know, Peter Bergen
In the 1996 declaration, bin Laden wrote, "I still feel the pain of Al Quds [Jerusalem] in my internal organs" "My Muslim Brothers of The World: Your brothers in Palestine and in the land of the two Holy Places are calling upon your help and asking you to take part in fighting against the enemy --your enemy and their enemy-- the Americans and the Israelis" "It should not be hidden from you that the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance and their collaborators; to the extent that the Muslims blood became the cheapest and their wealth as loot in the hands of the enemies. Their blood was spilled in Palestine and Iraq. The horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana [when Israeli forces struck a UN compound on April 18, 1996, killing one hundred] in Lebanon are still fresh in our memory. " p 165 Bergen (see the 1996 declaration of war)
osama-bin-laden-has-been-angry-about.html
Another example, in this case, the first thing listed is "Al-Aksa Mosque" (this is about Israel/Palestine) then "Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines":
"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal." - Osama bin Laden May 1999
“The Palestinian cause is the major issue for my nation. It was an important element in fueling me from the beginning and the 19 others with a great motive to fight for those subjected to injustice and the oppressed,” he said, referring to the 19 9/11 terrorists.
I noticed ABC's Diane Sawyer said "so he is now saying Israel is the central issue which is a bit of a shift from years gone by" and Brian Ross says "in the past year or two he has begun to make that the central issue, initially it was US forces." So Ross denies what bin Laden says in the tape and doesn't even mention it in his report and makes a claim it was US troops as central issue while ignoring bin Laden's statements (and the testimony of Philip Zelikow which was purposefully left out of the 9/11 Commission Report in which Zelikow says Khalid Sheikh Mohammed said bin Laden wanted to punish the US for supporting Israel) Fact is, bin Laden sometimes mentioned Palestine first, sometimes second and sometimes third in a usual list of three grievances. OVERALL, for all those involved in the attack, Israel is the main motive. But bin Laden never said, as far as I know, "troops in Saudi Arabia is the main thing" For example:
this is from the 1997 interview:
REPORTER: Mr. Bin Ladin, you've declared a jihad against the United States. Can you tell us why? And is the jihad directed against the US government or the United States' troops in Arabia? What about US civilians in Arabia or the people of the United States?
BIN LADIN: We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust, criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (killings in Lebanon perpetrated by Israel)
And remember it was on the wire services on the day of 9/11/01 that "Osama bin Laden warned three weeks ago that he and his followers would carry out an unprecedented attack on U.S. interests for its support of Israel."
Also, Peter Bergen points out that lies have been pushed: "conventional wisdom has it that bin Laden adopted the Palestinians issue only recently. Reading this declaration [the first declaration of war, issued in 1996] SHOULD PUT THAT CANARD TO REST." p164 The Bin Laden I Know, Peter Bergen
In the 1996 declaration, bin Laden wrote, "I still feel the pain of Al Quds [Jerusalem] in my internal organs" "My Muslim Brothers of The World: Your brothers in Palestine and in the land of the two Holy Places are calling upon your help and asking you to take part in fighting against the enemy --your enemy and their enemy-- the Americans and the Israelis" "It should not be hidden from you that the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance and their collaborators; to the extent that the Muslims blood became the cheapest and their wealth as loot in the hands of the enemies. Their blood was spilled in Palestine and Iraq. The horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana [when Israeli forces struck a UN compound on April 18, 1996, killing one hundred] in Lebanon are still fresh in our memory. " p 165 Bergen (see the 1996 declaration of war)
osama-bin-laden-has-been-angry-about.html
Another example, in this case, the first thing listed is "Al-Aksa Mosque" (this is about Israel/Palestine) then "Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines":
"The International Islamic Front for Jihad against the U.S. and Israel has issued a crystal-clear fatwa calling on the Islamic nation to carry on jihad aimed at liberating holy sites. The nation of Muhammad has responded to this appeal. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans in order to liberate Al-Aksa Mosque and the Holy Ka'aba Islamic shrines in the Middle East is considered a crime, then let history be a witness that I am a criminal." - Osama bin Laden May 1999
Monday, May 12, 2008
Re: Got a Question for Ralph Nader?
Re: Got a Question for Ralph Nader? - see video
Mr. Nader,
Will you honor your oath to the US Constitution to uphold the rule of law with regard to the use of US Armed Forces, unlike McCain, Obama and Hilary? Will you pledge that you will not be singing about bombing other countries like McCain or that you will not keep illegal options on the table like Obama & Hillary? Will you will absolutely rule out the use force unless it is legal according to our Constitution and the Constitutional responsibility to abide by the international treaties the US has signed which prohibit wars of aggression? McCain, Obama and Hillary are unwilling to abide by the UN Charter which the Unites States has signed. Will you declare that all threats of force are off the table and that you will instead abide by UN Charter and the law of the land as spelled out in our Constitution?
Mr. Nader,
Will you honor your oath to the US Constitution to uphold the rule of law with regard to the use of US Armed Forces, unlike McCain, Obama and Hilary? Will you pledge that you will not be singing about bombing other countries like McCain or that you will not keep illegal options on the table like Obama & Hillary? Will you will absolutely rule out the use force unless it is legal according to our Constitution and the Constitutional responsibility to abide by the international treaties the US has signed which prohibit wars of aggression? McCain, Obama and Hillary are unwilling to abide by the UN Charter which the Unites States has signed. Will you declare that all threats of force are off the table and that you will instead abide by UN Charter and the law of the land as spelled out in our Constitution?
Saturday, May 10, 2008
Curly quotes, Iran, Israel, Ahmadinejad & the Media
VIDEO: Curly quotes, Iran, Israel, Ahmadinejad & the Media
President Ahmadinejad and several Iranian officials have repeatedly made clear that they are not threatening to attack Israel. Iranian President Ahmadinejad did NOT threaten to use force against Israel. He DIDN'T threaten to attack Israel. It is outrageous and dangerous how 60 Minutes and nearly all of mainstream media continue to misrepresent what he has said.
http://flashjournalism.com/tips/curlyquotes.htm
Iran: 'We Won't Use Force'
Monday, June 12, 2006; Page A20
Regarding "A Legal Case Against Iran" [op-ed, June 6]:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
Also, the Islamic Republic of Iran has officially declared its commitment to the fundamental principle of the United Nations Charter, which is to refrain from the threat or use of force against any member of the United Nations. Yet a daily barrage of illegal threats by officials of the Israeli government to resort to force against Iran has continued to date.
Iran's position is very clear: We have not threatened to use force nor have we used force against any country or government in the past 250 years. We've never done that in the past, and we'll never do it in the future.
We wonder whether Israel or the United States can make the same statement.
What is urgent about the situation is getting the U.N. Security Council to act on the daily threats against Iran by the United States and Israel.
M.A. MOHAMMADI
Press Officer
Iranian Mission to the United Nations
New York
Iranian President Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
"There is no new policy," Ahmadinejad said. "They created a lot of hue and cry over that." Ahmadinejad added, "It is clear what we say: Let the Palestinians participate in free elections and they will say what they want."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/
Experts confirm that Iran's president did not call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'. Reports that he did serve to strengthen western hawks.
President Ahmadinejad and several Iranian officials have repeatedly made clear that they are not threatening to attack Israel. Iranian President Ahmadinejad did NOT threaten to use force against Israel. He DIDN'T threaten to attack Israel. It is outrageous and dangerous how 60 Minutes and nearly all of mainstream media continue to misrepresent what he has said.
http://flashjournalism.com/tips/curlyquotes.htm
Iran: 'We Won't Use Force'
Monday, June 12, 2006; Page A20
Regarding "A Legal Case Against Iran" [op-ed, June 6]:
It is not amazing at all, the pick-and-choose approach of highlighting the misinterpreted remarks of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in October and ignoring this month's remarks by Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, that "We have no problem with the world. We are not a threat whatsoever to the world, and the world knows it. We will never start a war. We have no intention of going to war with any state."
Also, the Islamic Republic of Iran has officially declared its commitment to the fundamental principle of the United Nations Charter, which is to refrain from the threat or use of force against any member of the United Nations. Yet a daily barrage of illegal threats by officials of the Israeli government to resort to force against Iran has continued to date.
Iran's position is very clear: We have not threatened to use force nor have we used force against any country or government in the past 250 years. We've never done that in the past, and we'll never do it in the future.
We wonder whether Israel or the United States can make the same statement.
What is urgent about the situation is getting the U.N. Security Council to act on the daily threats against Iran by the United States and Israel.
M.A. MOHAMMADI
Press Officer
Iranian Mission to the United Nations
New York
Iranian President Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
"There is no new policy," Ahmadinejad said. "They created a lot of hue and cry over that." Ahmadinejad added, "It is clear what we say: Let the Palestinians participate in free elections and they will say what they want."
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12790.htm
http://www.mohammadmossadegh.com/news/rumor-of-the-century/
Experts confirm that Iran's president did not call for Israel to be 'wiped off the map'. Reports that he did serve to strengthen western hawks.
Wednesday, April 30, 2008
Fear Creating Propaganda by Warmongering 60 Minutes
Fear Creating Propaganda by Warmongering 60 Minutes
Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
60 MINUTES: NEWS PROGRAM OR ARM OF THE ISRAEL LOBBY? by Danny Schechter
"This is just one more instance of the failure of TV programs we should be trusting to do more original and balanced research and not echo fear creating propaganda claims that seek to win public support for new wars." - Danny SchechterFriday, April 25, 2008
White House hiding the Truth
patricksmcnally writes, "What is watered down relative to the speeches up to September 28, 2001, is that in the later speeches Osama bin Laden, assuming it is him, effectively drops the theme of Jewish lobbying through the US media and politcal apparatus. If you want a parallel with intellectual trends here in the US, until September 28, 2001, bin Laden spoke in Mearsheimer/Walt terms. After October 7, 2001, bin Laden shifted to speaking in Chomskyesque terms. His speeches from this point onward carry many general statements against US interventionism overall and include Palestine/Israel within this category, but they no longer involve charges that: “This system is totally in the control of the American Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States.” The latter statement was made in the September 28, 2001, interview. Many statements similar to it appeared in earlier pre-911 interviews with bin Laden. But nothing like, as far I’ve been able to trace, has appeared since."
patricksmcnally, what he is complaining about, the specific policies, has remained consistent. What difference does it make if he thinks the policies are the result of this lobby or that influence? He could have even considered Chomsky's view more accurate as to why the politics are in place, that is not impossible. Chomsky did get more exposure after 9/11. He has read Chomsky and mentioned him by name so I don't see it as odd. The main point is that the powers that be in the US do not want the POLICIES discussed. Who would be and WHY in the world would they be making videos calling Bush a liar? "... the Mujahideen saw the black gang of thugs in the White House hiding the Truth, and their stupid and foolish leader, who is elected and supported by his people, denying reality and proclaiming that we (the Mujahideen) were striking them because we were jealous of them (the Americans), whereas the reality is that we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries." -Osama Bin Laden , February 14 , 2003
Again, what you are doing is off on a tangent and away from the fact: a former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief is calling Bush and Clinton LIARS AND 9/11 Commissioners were more worried about protecting the policy of supporting Israel than fulfilling their mandate concerning 9/11.
patricksmcnally, what he is complaining about, the specific policies, has remained consistent. What difference does it make if he thinks the policies are the result of this lobby or that influence? He could have even considered Chomsky's view more accurate as to why the politics are in place, that is not impossible. Chomsky did get more exposure after 9/11. He has read Chomsky and mentioned him by name so I don't see it as odd. The main point is that the powers that be in the US do not want the POLICIES discussed. Who would be and WHY in the world would they be making videos calling Bush a liar? "... the Mujahideen saw the black gang of thugs in the White House hiding the Truth, and their stupid and foolish leader, who is elected and supported by his people, denying reality and proclaiming that we (the Mujahideen) were striking them because we were jealous of them (the Americans), whereas the reality is that we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries." -Osama Bin Laden , February 14 , 2003
Again, what you are doing is off on a tangent and away from the fact: a former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief is calling Bush and Clinton LIARS AND 9/11 Commissioners were more worried about protecting the policy of supporting Israel than fulfilling their mandate concerning 9/11.
why isn't THIS something the "9/11 Truth" movement talks about?
patricksmcnally writes, "If you go back and review the comments which Osama had made in his interviews prior to October 7, 2001, you’ll see that the comments in later speeches really do merit the description of “a passing reference.” ... the statements attributed to Osama after October 7, 2001, have watered this down substantively. I’m not ready to say that proves that the later videos are all fake, but it does strike me as odd."
"I swear to God that America will not live in peace before peace reigns in Palestine."
What is "watered down" about that? You ignored my point that if they were fake, wouldn't the liars who insist that it is "hatred of freedom" have made these tapes say such a thing? In tapes for years after 9/11, bin Laden has been saying things that the powers that be in the US do not want said so your point lacks internal logic. What in the world would be the point of creating these videos?
Why is there this constant attempt to deflect away from what we KNOW. You should take note of the fact that Michael Scheuer, the former Chief of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit, says Bush is simply lying: "The politicians really are at great fault for not squaring with the American people. We're being attacked for what we do in the Islamic world, not for who we are or what we believe in or how we live. And there's a huge burden of guilt to be laid at Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton, both parties for simply lying to the American people." - Michael Scheuer, Former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief
Why isn't the "Truth Movement" dealing with THAT? Isn't that outrageous enough? Instead, the "Truth Movement" functions as a misdirection away from the fact that a former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief is calling Bush and Clinton LIARS.
And why is there an insistence not to deal with the betrayal of the 9/11 commissioners? Look at what they did, they failed to fulfill their mandate because commissioners "rejected mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the report. In their view, listing U.S. support for Israel as a root cause of al Qaeda's opposition to the United States indicated that the United States should reassess that policy." Again, why isn't THIS something the "9/11 Truth" movement talks about?
"I swear to God that America will not live in peace before peace reigns in Palestine."
What is "watered down" about that? You ignored my point that if they were fake, wouldn't the liars who insist that it is "hatred of freedom" have made these tapes say such a thing? In tapes for years after 9/11, bin Laden has been saying things that the powers that be in the US do not want said so your point lacks internal logic. What in the world would be the point of creating these videos?
Why is there this constant attempt to deflect away from what we KNOW. You should take note of the fact that Michael Scheuer, the former Chief of the CIA's Bin Laden Unit, says Bush is simply lying: "The politicians really are at great fault for not squaring with the American people. We're being attacked for what we do in the Islamic world, not for who we are or what we believe in or how we live. And there's a huge burden of guilt to be laid at Mr. Bush, Mr. Clinton, both parties for simply lying to the American people." - Michael Scheuer, Former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief
Why isn't the "Truth Movement" dealing with THAT? Isn't that outrageous enough? Instead, the "Truth Movement" functions as a misdirection away from the fact that a former CIA Bin Laden Unit Chief is calling Bush and Clinton LIARS.
And why is there an insistence not to deal with the betrayal of the 9/11 commissioners? Look at what they did, they failed to fulfill their mandate because commissioners "rejected mentioning the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in the report. In their view, listing U.S. support for Israel as a root cause of al Qaeda's opposition to the United States indicated that the United States should reassess that policy." Again, why isn't THIS something the "9/11 Truth" movement talks about?
diverting enormous amounts if energy away from real crimes of the administration
realitydesign, that doesn't make sense, it is just convoluted reasoning. You think they are creating tapes, tapes which talk about the same grievances shared by millions, and they created these tapes to call themselves liars?
There is nothing elegant about your reasoning. And what "debate" do you think is happening? What I see is suppression, denial and misdirection about the actual motives. And the "9/11 Truth" movement has filled this role so perfectly that powerful people like it. Chomsky is right when he points out that the 9/11 truth movement is "treated so tolerantly" and he suspects that "people in positions of power like it."
He points out that "It's diverting enormous amounts if energy away from real crimes of the administration ... so much potential activist energy is directed into 9/11 discussions. From the point of view of power centers, that's great. We'll give these people exposure on C-SPAN and have their books right up front at the local bookstores. A pretty tolerant reaction. We sort of say we think it's a bad joke, but you don't get the kind of reaction you do when you really go after hard issues." p36, Chomsky, What We Say Goes: Conversations on U.S. Power in a Changing World
There is nothing elegant about your reasoning. And what "debate" do you think is happening? What I see is suppression, denial and misdirection about the actual motives. And the "9/11 Truth" movement has filled this role so perfectly that powerful people like it. Chomsky is right when he points out that the 9/11 truth movement is "treated so tolerantly" and he suspects that "people in positions of power like it."
"sandwiched in between."
Diane writes, "To Tom (representativepress): In support of your claim that al-Qaeda’s wrath at the U.S.A. is all about Israel, you linked to a post in which you quote bin Laden as saying, “we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries.” Note here that Israel (Palestine) is sandwiched in between Iraq and “the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries” (Saudi Arabia), where the U.S. had a bunch of military bases left over from the first Gulf War. So it isn’t just about Israel, but about the U.S.A.’s Middle East policy in general."
"In support of your claim that al-Qaeda’s wrath at the U.S.A. is all about Israel." - Diane
I have never said that Diane, try to find a quote that backs up your assertion. What I have written is clear as far as the 9/11 terrorists' motives. I have written that it is the main motive and I have written that "the MAIN issue was U.S. support of Israel and in all in all likelihood the terrorists would have concentrated on someplace else like Chechnya if the U.S. was not supporting Israel." I never said it was "ALL about Israel."
You write that I "linked to a post in which you quote bin Laden as saying, “we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries.”"
I not only linked to it, I quoted it in my post to you and I know what I am quoting. I am quoting what I have been quoting for years, which is the motives for the attacks. You are making a straw man argument.
Diane, again you have characterized what objectively is the second in a list of three things as "sandwiched in between." The phrase "sandwiched in between" is not an objective and neutral reference for what most people would call the second in a list of three things. It appears that you trying to downplay Israel as a motive.
Now sometimes bin Laden mentions Palestine first, sometimes second and sometimes third in the usual list of three grievances but as far as the main motive which motivated the 9/11 attack, look at statements from the hijackers, the mastermind of 9/11 and others:
The 9/11 report at least mentioned this about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed,
the mastermind of 9/11 (although we know commissioners pressured to not include Israel as a motive for the attacks because they didn't want the American people to reassess the policy of supporting Israel): "By his own account, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's animus toward the United States stemmed not from his experiences there as a student, but rather from his violent disagreement with U.S. foreign policy favoring Israel." Chapter 5
The report also showed that the two terrorist pilots shared the same motivation. Both Mohammed Atta, the leader of the mission and terrorist pilot who crashed into World Trade Center 1, and Marwan al Shehhi, the terrorist pilot who crashed into WTC 2, were angry about what Israel was doing to the Palestinians: "when someone asked why he and Atta never laughed, Shehhi retorted, 'How can you laugh when people are dying in Palestine?'" p 162
In March of 2002, MSNBC aired "The Making of the Death Pilots." In that documentary, German friend Ralph Bodenstein who traveled, worked and talked a lot with Mohammed Atta. Ralph said, "He (Atta) was most imbued actually about Israeli politics in the region and about US protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that."
Abdulaziz Alomari, one of the hijackers aboard Flight 11 with Mohammed Atta, said in his video will, "My work is a message those who heard me and to all those who saw me at the same time it is a message to the infidels that you should leave the Arabian peninsula defeated and stop giving a hand of help to the coward Jews in Palestine." Ahmed Al Haznawi, a hijacker aboard Flight 93, said in his video will, "Here is Palestine for more than a half-century, its wound has continued to bleed."
We see that the main motive is what many Middle East experts say is the main grievance in the Middle East which is what Israel has been doing to Palestine. It is not surprising that the main grievance in the Middle East is the main motive for the attacks. There is no evidence that bin Laden isn't actually angered by the specific foreign policies he complains about.
"In support of your claim that al-Qaeda’s wrath at the U.S.A. is all about Israel." - Diane
I have never said that Diane, try to find a quote that backs up your assertion. What I have written is clear as far as the 9/11 terrorists' motives. I have written that it is the main motive and I have written that "the MAIN issue was U.S. support of Israel and in all in all likelihood the terrorists would have concentrated on someplace else like Chechnya if the U.S. was not supporting Israel." I never said it was "ALL about Israel."
You write that I "linked to a post in which you quote bin Laden as saying, “we are striking them because of their evil and injustice in the whole of the Islamic World, especially in Iraq and Palestine and their occupation of the Land of the Two Holy Sanctuaries.”"
I not only linked to it, I quoted it in my post to you and I know what I am quoting. I am quoting what I have been quoting for years, which is the motives for the attacks. You are making a straw man argument.
Diane, again you have characterized what objectively is the second in a list of three things as "sandwiched in between." The phrase "sandwiched in between" is not an objective and neutral reference for what most people would call the second in a list of three things. It appears that you trying to downplay Israel as a motive.
Now sometimes bin Laden mentions Palestine first, sometimes second and sometimes third in the usual list of three grievances but as far as the main motive which motivated the 9/11 attack, look at statements from the hijackers, the mastermind of 9/11 and others:
The 9/11 report at least mentioned this about Khalid Sheikh Mohammed,
The report also showed that the two terrorist pilots shared the same motivation. Both Mohammed Atta, the leader of the mission and terrorist pilot who crashed into World Trade Center 1, and Marwan al Shehhi, the terrorist pilot who crashed into WTC 2, were angry about what Israel was doing to the Palestinians: "when someone asked why he and Atta never laughed, Shehhi retorted, 'How can you laugh when people are dying in Palestine?'" p 162
In March of 2002, MSNBC aired "The Making of the Death Pilots." In that documentary, German friend Ralph Bodenstein who traveled, worked and talked a lot with Mohammed Atta. Ralph said, "He (Atta) was most imbued actually about Israeli politics in the region and about US protection of these Israeli politics in the region. And he was to a degree personally suffering from that."
Abdulaziz Alomari, one of the hijackers aboard Flight 11 with Mohammed Atta, said in his video will, "My work is a message those who heard me and to all those who saw me at the same time it is a message to the infidels that you should leave the Arabian peninsula defeated and stop giving a hand of help to the coward Jews in Palestine." Ahmed Al Haznawi, a hijacker aboard Flight 93, said in his video will, "Here is Palestine for more than a half-century, its wound has continued to bleed."
We see that the main motive is what many Middle East experts say is the main grievance in the Middle East which is what Israel has been doing to Palestine. It is not surprising that the main grievance in the Middle East is the main motive for the attacks. There is no evidence that bin Laden isn't actually angered by the specific foreign policies he complains about.
Only a passing reference to Israel?
"From the October 7, 2001, video, no mention at all of Jews directly, and only a passing reference to Israel" - patricksmcnally
patricksmcnally, I wanted to make a quick point. Even in the Oct. 7th video, bin Laden is doing a hell of a lot more than making a "passing reference to Israel." You should think this over and examine why you are trying to downplay the issue of Israel. Even the two things you did quote, neither of them is a "passing reference."
I think you know, when he refers to Palestine, or when others refer to Palestine, they are talking mainly about Israel, directly about what Israel does to Palestine. The references to Palestine ARE talking about the grievances caused by the injustices caused by Israel or Zionists. So the two things you quoted are not "passing references," they are a directly talking about the specific grievance of Israel's crimes.
And it simply is incorrect, to say the least, to characterize this as a "passing reference":
"I swear to God that America will not live in peace before peace reigns in Palestine, and before all the army of infidels depart the land of Mohammad, peace be upon him." I say that is dramatic and direct and that alone disproves the point you are trying to make.
And there are other references in that particular speech which you overlooked. Right at the top, bin Laden refers to Palestine when he talks about the 80 years:
"and thanks be to God that what America is tasting now is only a copy of we have tasted. Our Islamic nation has been tasting the same for more 80 years, of humiliation and disgrace, its sons killed and their blood spilled, its sanctities desecrated. " (80 years ago was the 1921 Cairo Conference which dealt with British power over Palestine and Iraq and I don't know if it is a coincidence but September 11, 1922 is when the British mandate came into force over Palestine.)
Bin Laden also said this is that same speech:
"When those have stood in defense of their weak children, their brothers and sisters in Palestine and other Muslim nations, the whole world went into an uproar, the infidels followed by the hypocrites."
It is disturbing to see the "9/11 Truth" movement downplaying and misdirecting the public away from the real motives. This is the same thing liars like Thomas Friedman have been doing.
Friedman has been lying to the public for years. Back in 1998 he claimed that the terrorists make no specific demands, "no specific ideological program or demands." he claims and that it is just a "generalized hatred". Friedman has enormous influence over the public discourse and it looks like he's the one behind the "conventional wisdom" that bin Laden never focused on this issue of Palestine until recently. Friedman put that lie in his best selling book "Longitudes & Attitudes." Friedman claims, "the fact is that bin Laden never focused on this issue. He only started talking about "Palestine" after September 11, when he sensed that he might be losing the support of the Arab street. " (p311 of Longitudes & Attitudes ) and " Osama bin Laden never mentioned the Palestinian cause as motivating his actions until he felt he was losing support in the Arab world. " (p361-362 of Longitudes & Attitudes ) What Friedman has written is a flat out lie. To give just one example that disproves what Friedman wrote: "Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. " - Osama bin Laden, May 1998. Also, Peter Bergen points out that lies have been pushed: "conventional wisdom has it that bin Laden adopted the Palestinians issue only recently. Reading this declaration [the first declaration of war, issued in 1996] SHOULD PUT THAT CANARD TO REST." p164 The Bin Laden I Know, Peter Bergen
It is beyond the pale for Zionists to lie to us about why we were attacked on 9/11.
patricksmcnally, I wanted to make a quick point. Even in the Oct. 7th video, bin Laden is doing a hell of a lot more than making a "passing reference to Israel." You should think this over and examine why you are trying to downplay the issue of Israel. Even the two things you did quote, neither of them is a "passing reference."
I think you know, when he refers to Palestine, or when others refer to Palestine, they are talking mainly about Israel, directly about what Israel does to Palestine. The references to Palestine ARE talking about the grievances caused by the injustices caused by Israel or Zionists. So the two things you quoted are not "passing references," they are a directly talking about the specific grievance of Israel's crimes.
And it simply is incorrect, to say the least, to characterize this as a "passing reference":
"I swear to God that America will not live in peace before peace reigns in Palestine, and before all the army of infidels depart the land of Mohammad, peace be upon him." I say that is dramatic and direct and that alone disproves the point you are trying to make.
And there are other references in that particular speech which you overlooked. Right at the top, bin Laden refers to Palestine when he talks about the 80 years:
"and thanks be to God that what America is tasting now is only a copy of we have tasted. Our Islamic nation has been tasting the same for more 80 years, of humiliation and disgrace, its sons killed and their blood spilled, its sanctities desecrated. " (80 years ago was the 1921 Cairo Conference which dealt with British power over Palestine and Iraq and I don't know if it is a coincidence but September 11, 1922 is when the British mandate came into force over Palestine.)
Bin Laden also said this is that same speech:
"When those have stood in defense of their weak children, their brothers and sisters in Palestine and other Muslim nations, the whole world went into an uproar, the infidels followed by the hypocrites."
It is disturbing to see the "9/11 Truth" movement downplaying and misdirecting the public away from the real motives. This is the same thing liars like Thomas Friedman have been doing.
Friedman has been lying to the public for years. Back in 1998 he claimed that the terrorists make no specific demands, "no specific ideological program or demands." he claims and that it is just a "generalized hatred". Friedman has enormous influence over the public discourse and it looks like he's the one behind the "conventional wisdom" that bin Laden never focused on this issue of Palestine until recently. Friedman put that lie in his best selling book "Longitudes & Attitudes." Friedman claims, "the fact is that bin Laden never focused on this issue. He only started talking about "Palestine" after September 11, when he sensed that he might be losing the support of the Arab street. " (p311 of Longitudes & Attitudes ) and " Osama bin Laden never mentioned the Palestinian cause as motivating his actions until he felt he was losing support in the Arab world. " (p361-362 of Longitudes & Attitudes ) What Friedman has written is a flat out lie. To give just one example that disproves what Friedman wrote: "Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame. " - Osama bin Laden, May 1998. Also, Peter Bergen points out that lies have been pushed: "conventional wisdom has it that bin Laden adopted the Palestinians issue only recently. Reading this declaration [the first declaration of war, issued in 1996] SHOULD PUT THAT CANARD TO REST." p164 The Bin Laden I Know, Peter Bergen
It is beyond the pale for Zionists to lie to us about why we were attacked on 9/11.
Thursday, April 24, 2008
Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
See these YouTube Videos:*
- Ahmadinejad DID NOT threaten to "wipe Israel off the map."
http://www.tinyurl.com/3htv9n - CBS's Scott Pelley Suppresses "War President's" Incompetence
http://www.tinyurl.com/4waknn
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