Thursday, December 01, 2005


What in the world do you think was "handled?" You are not following the premise of the discussion if you think they "handled" the comments. Seriously, tell me what it is you need to see. What is it you are not seeing? I laid out the facts so why would anyone continue to believe that U.S officials intend on true democracy? Look at the history, look at their current actions. You think U.S, polciymakers actually want the Iraqi people to make their own policies? What do you think these policies are? U.S. officials talk about a pipe line to ship oil to Israel. do you really think this is what the Iraqis want? Can't you see that policy makers don't care what they want?

I pointed out that there is no reason to believe U.S. policymakers when they claim they want democracy for IRaq. I gave the example of VIetnam where there was to be an election in 1956 yet the US backed Diem who refused elections. No one can dispute this fact and yet you want to think the problem in Vietnam was we were to "wussy?" And look how the media behaves, they don't make this clear to the public. ANd since you read Chomsky's book, Imperial Ambitions you know that he pointed out on page 125 that a huge number of Americans have no idea how many Vietnamese were killed in the war. A public-opinion study was done. "the mean answer was a hundred thousand, about 5 percent of the official figure." The media hasn't even made the public aware of the accurate number of war deaths!

I then pointed out, not quoted but just wrote off the top of my head that only 1% of Iraqis actually believe the U.S. intends to allow real democracy in Iraq. 74 minutes later I provided the source I got the info from and correctly quoted what it was I thought I was referring to. "1% of Iraqis thought the goal was to bring democracy." (by the way, turns out 5% or less thought the goal was WMD, the U.S.'s stated goal) And I went to the trouble of finding the Washington Post article and that still wasn't enough for stinker?

But the central premise that the U.S. doesn't intend to allow real democracy is the main point. In fact as I posted, "51 percent" of Iraqis "said Washington would not allow Iraqis to do that without U.S. pressure and influence."

But the history shows there is no reason to believe U.S. officials' claims. There is no reason to believe the MSM is serious about pursuing these things. Look how they don't deal with the extremely important fact about the Iraqi election that "people voted with the hope that it would end the occupation."

Do you not notice that U.S. officials are not saying that the U.S. will get out when the Iraqis want us out? Do you not notice the media doesn't frame the debate around what the Iraqis want but instead talk about what the U.S. intends to do regardless of what the Iraqis want. Do you not see that? Democracy means that the Iraqi government would represent the will of the Iraqi people, we can see that powerful interests the U.S. are not concerned about that. Is it really hard to believe that these U.S. officials share the mentality of LTC (RET) John G. Wheelock and think “to the victor goes the spoils?" We certainly have bad people in America, you guys can't get it into your heads that bad people can get into our government. You don't think there are people in government like Wheelock who think it is a big joke to undermine democracy for foreign people? The same way Wheelock thinks the coup against Chavez was fine, you don't think U.S. policy makes are just as willing to disregard the rights of people in foreign countries?

I pointed out the VERY important fact that U.S. officials and the media almost never if ever talk about what the Iraqis want when it comes to the troops.

The media constantly plays the game of going alone with the agenda of the powerful. I just saw the Iran hostage crisis mentioned on MSNBC, no mention of the reason why the hostages were taken. This is very common for the media to do.

What does it take Brian? You don't notice that I was debating with someone that doesn't even share American values? “to the victor goes the spoils" is what this guy prefers. That is the mentality of our enemies for God sakes. Americans are supposed to stand for values. Why don't you take this seriously Brian?

Brian's unbelievable response:

You have pointed out a lot of crap, and none of it is even interesting. If it was, I would be paying more attention in here. Chomsky is a Communist, he can label it anyway he likes, and you have decided to become his follower. That is never going to get any traction here.

Ya know, there is a whole lot of really good philosophy books out there to study, I wouldn’t bother with an old Commie who lives like a capitalist.

Frankly I do not know why my readers bother debating you. It is like trying to tell a Christian that Jesus wasn’t God. That is a complete waste of time, and not a worthy endevour. I imagine they believe they can save you from yourself, and I don’t believe that is possible.

I don’t know why people buy into all this crud. It is like talking to an anti-gunner that thinks the country would be safer if we banned guns, even though every country that has banneed them has gotten worse.

Communism cannot work, it always leads to a totalitarian government. History teaches us this fact.

Utopia on earth will not happen unless there is a second coming of christ. It is just not reality.

If you consider economic opportunity for other countries creating an empire, you are foolish. History has always showed America to be a Great Country that never dominates another.

Iraq will make of Iraq what it will. We are giving them an opportunity and what they do with it is their responsibilty.

Although I think Chomsky is brilliant, he is also a dope for buying into all that commie crap. Either that or he is intellectually dishonest, and a phoney; you decide.

So, there is really nothing to discuss.

You all did a great job, but I would just let him talk to himself.

My Reply:

Brian said: "You have pointed out a lot of crap, and none of it is even interesting"

So you can’t deal with the facts, you are “bored”. You can’t counter anything, all you can do is label things, never deal with the points raised. Actually when you do you see that I am telling the truth. You probably were surprised to learn that AMerica was not the first to free the slaves. I guess you don’t want to risk learning that other things you assume are incorrect too.

I can’t make you act like an adult and actually discuss the pressing issues of the day. You want to avoid it all label people to avoid thinking about the issues.

Brian said: "Frankly I do not know why my readers bother debating you. It is like trying to tell a Christian that Jesus wasn’t God."

Actually it is you that take these things as articles of faith that simply cannot be discussed. What you are doing is called projection. I am more than willing to have my assumptions challenged with facts. You go on an on with this “communist” stuff. what does it have to do with the points raised. It is an embarrassing copout on your part. Throw those labels around yet what does it have to do with points of fact about the issues we are discussing?

Your non-review of the Chomsky book was so odd, I should have known you would post such an evasive reply. What are you so afraid of? I know that there were many people in 1831 who were afraid to question if slavery was right.

Brian said: "“If you consider economic opportunity for other countries creating an empire, you are foolish. History has always showed America to be a Great Country that never dominates another.”

It would be a good idea to examine the facts. It would be a nice thing but being in denial and refusing to even discuss it doesn’t make it true. Do you realize how much the media suppresses? Fo example, did it ever occur to you to look into how the Ba’ath party got into power in the first place? Notice the MSM didn’t think to look at that either.

If someone tells you that people are suffering and dying as a result of certain policies, it really is depraved to dismiss it without looking into it. In America, we are supposed to be self ruled. You are not doing your duty as a citizen to make sure that crimes an injustices are not perpetrated.

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