Sunday, April 27, 2003

(<<Empire500>> claims he learned something from 9/11)

<< Hmmmm. You're going to tell me I did not learn anything? I would say you learned something, Tom. What you learned is that when someone attacks you you go to your knees and apologize for forgiveness. -Empire500>>

No I called for apprehending the people responsible, that is not "dropping to my knees"

<< You watched the towers collapse and thought, my God, we must give in to terrorism. -Empire500>>

"Give in"? Don't be an ass. I said the people responsible should be caught and punished.

<< The enemy will not break the spirit of this country, my friend. No matter what our policies are, no one attacks us and expects the white flag to go up. -Empire500>>

Catching the people and holding them responsible and punishing them is not "putting up a white flag"

<< Get that into your thick Socialist skull. -Empire500>>

You still don't understand how this economy really works do you?

Do you think we never should have "given in to terrorism" when we had terrorism because of slavery? Should we have kept slavery because "no matter what the policies are" we must continue with those policies if someone attacks us because of them?
Nat Turner led a group of terrorists that killed men women and children. According to him, it was religious mission that was made clear to him by a sign form God. The killed men, women and children. Does that mean we should have continued with slavery because if we ended slavery that would be "giving in to terrorists"? Slavery was wrong and Nat Turner's terrorism was wrong. Two wrongs. Is that hard to grasp? But just because these terrorist acts were committed doesn't mean we had to continue to screw over people and continue to use them as slaves.

Yes, our policy makers have been screwing these people over in the Middle East.

<< Conjecture. -Empire500>>

No not "conjecture". Was it "conjecture" that slavery screwed over black people? You don't want to deal with the harm caused by unjust policies.
When you write something as off the wall as that, I really have to wonder if you give a damn about the truth.

<< What's off the wall is the idea that this country should be brought down -Empire500>>

"brought down", why the melodrama? Was our country "brought down" because we don't have slaves anymore?

<< For any mistake we made or the people we supposedly supported? You fail to realize that an Allie can become an enemy somewhere down the road. If the truth is we supported the Baath Party, as you claim, then today we are not. This country should not be told we cannot attack or terminate relations with someone because we supported them in the past. -Empire500>>

That is not my argument the point is powerful people have kept basic facts from the American people in America (a country that supposedly is the most free country on Earth. the problem is you can't be ignorant and free)

We imposed Saddam on them for God sakes!!! what more do you need to see?

<< You can keep screaming until you are blue in the face, Tom. I am not buying your story. -Empire500>>

You still didn't look into it? You rather have an opinion based on nothing more than what you are presented by mainstream media? Whether we imposed him or not is not the case anymore. If it was our mess, then we are cleaning it up. You want to hang the present administration for supposed crimes of past administrations. Have any of your relatives committed crimes in the past? Should we hold you accountable for them?
I have said repeatedly to hold those responsible for it, not others. But the point is, it is manipulative to deceive Americans about the actions of their government.

<< We do not support evil things -Empire500>>

We supported Saddam AND we supported the mujahdeen!!

<< The Soviet Union and Iran were our main rivals back then, Tom. -Empire500>>

Why? What did they do to us?

<< Sometimes, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. -Empire500>>

Now the were "enemies"? Why?

<< Crap, my own family members form alliances with each other to put one over whoever they are at odds with. When the fight is over they renew their feud. Unfortunately, national security must come before morality. There are no favorites in war.-Empire500>>

When are you going to wake up?

<< When are you? We will NOT leave them alone. We will not get out of the Persian Gulf. -Empire500>>

should we bring back slavery? Was slavery wrong in your eyes?
I thought you were the guy that did care about justice and morality. Now
it doesn't mean a damn thing to you?

<< Justice and morality have nothing to do with it. It is a matter of security. -Empire500>>

These foreign polices make us less secure, not more.

<< Israel is our allie. -Empire500>>


<< The oil fields are of strategic value. You would allow people like Bin Laden to topple Saudi Arabia and control those oil fields? -Empire500>>

Bin Laden is represents a very small minority. The overwhelming majority of the people don't want the extremeteh extreme system he wants. Saudi Arabia is by no means an angel. The Kings that rule it are kept in power by us. If it was a democracy, it would be more moderate. I have see polls that indicate this. They are as two faced as the guy from Batman. But, a radical Islamic State is by far the worse of it. Saudi Arabi is a radical Islamic state, it is considered "moderate" because US businessmen are in bed with them (these businessmen dictate US foreign policy)
We must never allow that to happen.

<< We will not abandon our alliance with Israel -Empire500>>

WHY? Are you a racist Empire500? Why support a racist country? Why won't we
"abandon our alliance with Israel"?

<< I am not a racist. -Empire500>>

That's good, so I assume you wouldn't want to support racism.

<< Israel is not a racist country. -Empire500>>

You seriously need to do some research. Israel has about the same percentage of non-Jews (approx. 20%) inside it as we have Blacks in America.

<< To brand Israel a racist country means you support the Arabs who have constantly referred to the Jews as "the Zionist Entity." -Empire500>>

Next I think you are going to call me a "nigger lover" for saying that we should not have oppressed blacks in America.

<< The Arabs are as racist as they come, Tom. -Empire500>>

You said you weren't racist, yet you make a comment like this?

<< To speak on their behalf is racism. As long as we are friends with Israel the Arabs will never consider invading them. It also keeps the Arabs in control. -Empire500>>

Like in South Africa, the way we supported the racist South African government that oppressed the blacks. We even called Nelson Mandella a terrorist.

<< I'm sure, even you would admit, the last you want to see on the desert horizon is a division of Israeli tanks coming your way. -Empire500>>

Do you know the first thing about Israel? I very much doubt it.

<< I know that they can be an arrogant bunch of sniffs. Who cares? They stood up to these Arab dogs and won a nation. -Empire500>>

"stood up to"? A minority of Palestine imposed a racist system on the majority of the people living there. "Dogs"? Because they didn't want a small minority to make them into second class citizens in their own land?

<< They have been blown up, highjacked, executed, invaded for as long as they have been a country. -Empire500>>

Jews have done this too, it just gets suppressed here in America.

<< With so many people wanting you dead, I'll grant them their behavior at treating terrorist the way they do. If the Arabs cheer their mad dog killers on, then they deserve to get slapped around. -Empire500>>

Here we go. The excuses. It can't be that the majority of the people don't want to be mistreated, it "must be" that they want the Jews dead. You really swallow the propaganda.

<< That is the basis of all this. Bin Laden says get out, so we have to leave? -Empire500>>

No, not because bin Laden says so, because it is wrong to screw people over the way US policy makers do.

<< Hear that? It's the worlds smallest violin and it's playing a sad song for your desert hero's. You may think our policy is screwing these people over. The fact is that "these" people have been uncooperative to any reasoning at all for over 50 years. -Empire500>>

That is a lie.

<< They will never be at peace with Israel. Their only goal is to kill every last Jew in the Middle-East. -Empire500>>

Another lie.

<< They will either comply or be destroyed. It's as simple as that, Tommy. -Empire500>>

Kind of like the slaves we had in America.

<< They forced war upon us. -Empire500>>

What the hell are you talking about? Nearly everyone in the Middle East doesn't want us to manipulate their affairs.

<< They hate us. Who gives a shit what they want? They don't make the rules anymore, my friend. They had many chances. Like a bad gambler they rolled snake eyes too many times. The game is over. Step away from the table Hassan. -Empire500>>

I bet you would have said the same about Nat Turner at the time.

The extremists (and you must admit that when the US policy makers throw them
BILLIONS of dollars it makes them stronger) have made it clear they don't
want us too (in addition to the millions of non-terrorist citizens. )

<< Again. What do I care what they want? The US has what I had hoped for 12 years would have. A nasty wedge right between Syria and Iran. Now, the second Battle for Iraq can begin. We'll draw every terrorist into a killing field. Our Armies will smash them in Iraq and Afghanistan. What makes it funny is that the stupid ragheads are willing walking into the fight. How stupid is that? -Empire500>>

bin Laden asked for years and made it clear we were interfering, he got
people to follow him because the fact is the wrongs are real and nearly
anyone would be angry about them.

<< Oh, brother! If that is not a clear way of saying you support Bin Laden, I don't know what is! -Empire500>>

Well, you don't know much then. Bin Laden represents a small group. (the U.S. is very much at fault for pumping billions into this kind of movement. Then they turn around and blame ALL of Middle Easterners for the radical few. A few that the U.S. supported like I said) I never supported them, the U.S. policy makers on the other hand made an excuse to!

<< Whether you know it or not, you just justified 9/11 for that sick old man and his wacko crew. -Empire500>>

This is the game played by those that want to continue the unjust policies. The claim that you make, looking at the motives means "justifying them, is sick and simpleminded.
I have given you the example of two wrongs. Lets say you live in a building with others and one of them goes around the neighborhood killing people's pets. Lets say one of those pet's owners burns down the building that you and the pet killer live in. Now lets say you make it out alive and the police try to figure out a motive for why the building was burned down. Are you going to jump all over the cop that figures out that the motive was that a guy that lives in your building had been killing people's pets and one of the owners flipped out and burned your building down?
Would you dare tell the cop that he is "justifying" the crime?

<< That makes you equal to the terrorists, Tom. We can end these talks right here and now. You have made yourself and enemy of the United States. As of this moment, I hereby declare your citizenship renounced. You are no longer an American in my eyes, if you ever were one. Your flag is the green Islamic Nazi flag. This is the last time I respond to your posts. Keep screaming, loser. No one hears you anymore. I say we should all block MediaReform and any "form" he takes. He can write all the posts he wants. No one has to read them. Good-bye, Tom. Enemy of the state. -Empire500>>

You have got to be kidding me.